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Supreme Court Rules against Democracy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:49 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMxNnJn2oeE

So ya, in case you haven't heard the Supreme Court reviewed a past case and overturned it. In simple terms what happened is simply the fact that they removed the cap on corporations spending on campaign funds.

You see for the longest time corporations were allowed to spend only so much money on political candidates. But that law has been thrown out meaning the corporations (which have FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR more money then even the average rich person) are allowed to spend that money on campaigning for whatever political candidate they want. Meaning pressure on candidates to pass legislation and do things favorable for the corporation that sponsored them, else they lose that money.

Meaning politicians not being of the people, but being of the people as defined by the corporation. It's about the worst thing that any democracy could face, and in essence has KILLED our democracy since it means if you ever wanted to run for office, especially a high up important one, lest you become a lap dog of a sponsor, your basically going up against what any multibillion dollar corporation decides they care to spend to advertise.

So ya, that's the short rant version.

Though there's something YOU can do, which is sign the petition on this subject to get it overturned and made so this can't happen. Normally I don't post any political crap like this, but ya, this is an outrage of the highest order for all intelligent free people.

http://salsa.mydccc.org/o/30019/p/dia/a ... g=redirect

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Re: Supreme Court Rules against Democracy
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:35 pm 
 
 
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Bahamut2000X wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMxNnJn2oeE

So ya, in case you haven't heard the Supreme Court reviewed a past case and overturned it. In simple terms what happened is simply the fact that they removed the cap on corporations spending on campaign funds.

You see for the longest time [20 years, a shorter span than my age] corporations were allowed to spend only so much money on political candidates. But that law has been thrown out meaning the corporations (which have FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR more money then even the average rich person) are allowed to spend that money on campaigning for whatever political candidate they want. Meaning pressure on candidates to pass legislation and do things favorable for the corporation that sponsored them, else they lose that money.

Meaning politicians not being of the people, but being of the people as defined by the corporation. It's about the worst thing that any democracy could face, and in essence has KILLED our democracy since it means if you ever wanted to run for office, especially a high up important one, lest you become a lap dog of a sponsor, your basically going up against what any multibillion dollar corporation decides they care to spend to advertise.


Your entire rant is negated by the intelligence of the American people who are willing and able to vote. Big donors recently spent millions on the Coakley campaign in Massachusetts, but that did not insure a victory. Indeed, her lobbyist dinner party in Washington D.C. turned into a PR disaster as voters found out about the big cash she was receiving from special interest groups.

Through reading your post, I also question whether you even know what was overturned. The case concerned rules which forbade certain corporations, including non-profits, from campaigning for candidates through advertisements paid for only by general treasury funds for a certain period before elections, both general and primary.

You blatantly leave out that fact that what was overturned in the McCain-Feingold law was unconstitutional. The government was singling out a particular group for discrimination, which is unlawful according to the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. The First Amendment provides that free speech cannot be prohibited, regardless of how much money a group has or has not. For the government to be specific on who can say what during what times constitutes an obvious abuse of power and a restraint against that free speech held by the Founding Fathers.

For further reading about the issue, here are some very informative links:

Candidates and Political Parties Are Losers in Campaign Finance Case by William McGinley
A Death Blow to McCain-Feingold by Clarice Feldman
Supreme Court Strikes Down Campaign Finance Laws by Sean Parnell

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Re: Supreme Court Rules against Democracy
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:36 pm 
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The way I got it, and obviously i'm not alone in the though since president Obama addressed it in his state of the union address. It's not a good thing.

Seeing as how only 54% of the population voted in the last election and seeing how 66% of the youth voted for obama. SO I THINK his campaign targeting the youth went well.

What happens when another candidate gets tons of money because of this whole over ruling? Have you ever interviewed voters? I have. Most of them do buy into the marketing nonsense that airs on tv's and in news papers.

It's easier to be told what's going on than to actually figure it out for yourself. So even if there is an instance of one PR disaster it doesn't mean others can't get away with things. At least with the ruling in place before they couldn't garner a lot of money from outside sources and if they did it took more to hide it. Now well they don't have to hide it as much, it's legal and heck they will encourage it.

You can tag on the first amendment rights to anything. Hell my first admentment rights are being taken away when I am not allowed to download music or movies because I interpret them and write papers or poems to them. Tadad 1st amendment rights tagged on to something that isn't right.

What i'm gathering from this is you'd rather have someone who gets lots of money and so they have better marketing which leads to well better "sells" or votes in this case. Meaning they would be able to lead our country because they had the money too. That's like saying little timmy at the orphanage has less of a right to become president than Little Greggory who lives in the mansion on the hill because his daddy knows more people and has more money.

It goes from who has the qualities to who has the most money. Free speech all you want the founding fathers didn't want a country based on the hierarchy of classes. They didn't want the rich leading the poor that's why they created the whole democracy thing in the first place! So everyone has an equal opportunity to lead and vote for who they feel.

I just think the flood gates have been opened and we're gonna be dealing with a bunch of nonsense now because someone has more money/connections than others. :/

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Re: Supreme Court Rules against Democracy
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:09 pm 
 
 
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I've punctuated your post with my own comments.

Lekana wrote:
The way I got it, and obviously i'm not alone in the though since president Obama addressed it in his state of the union address. It's not a good thing.
[Somehow group-think shouldn't be a defining factor in whether a decision by the SCOTUS is constitution or not.]

Seeing as how only 54% of the population voted in the last election and seeing how 66% of the youth voted for obama. SO I THINK his campaign targeting the youth went well.
[I'm not sure how this is relevant. Could you expound your reasoning a little more?]

What happens when another candidate gets tons of money because of this whole over ruling? Have you ever interviewed voters? I have. Most of them do buy into the marketing nonsense that airs on tv's and in news papers.
[As much as personal experiences are what everyone judges the world by, I don't believe you've interviewed all the voters in the United States. In essence, your view is a narrow snapshot of the electorate. Have you ever thought both sides might be balanced by the influx of corporate financing?]

It's easier to be told what's going on than to actually figure it out for yourself. So even if there is an instance of one PR disaster it doesn't mean others can't get away with things. At least with the ruling in place before they couldn't garner a lot of money from outside sources and if they did it took more to hide it. Now well they don't have to hide it as much, it's legal and heck they will encourage it
[It's called the Information Age for a reason. People are flocking to alternate media such as blogs and media websites because they ARE willing to find the reasons behind why things happen or what another interpretation might reveal. Transparency would work better in showing who gives how much to whom, rather than trampling on constitutional rights merely because you might not like the message.]

You can tag on the first amendment rights to anything. Hell my first admentment rights are being taken away when I am not allowed to download music or movies because I interpret them and write papers or poems to them. Tadad 1st amendment rights tagged on to something that isn't right.
[While interpretation does differ on amendments, I'm not sure how you believe your amendments rights are being removed because of being banned from access to online files. Are these copyrighted?]

What i'm gathering from this is you'd rather have someone who gets lots of money and so they have better marketing which leads to well better "sells" or votes in this case. Meaning they would be able to lead our country because they had the money too. That's like saying little timmy at the orphanage has less of a right to become president than Little Greggory who lives in the mansion on the hill because his daddy knows more people and has more money.
[Citizens are able to market to their preferred candidate (see previous Massachusetts example to refute your statement). From what your posting, I assume you didn't read any of the articles I gave as examples which refuted the idea of the country being led by only a privileged few.]

It goes from who has the qualities to who has the most money. Free speech all you want the founding fathers didn't want a country based on the hierarchy of classes. They didn't want the rich leading the poor that's why they created the whole democracy thing in the first place! So everyone has an equal opportunity to lead and vote for who they feel.
[In your definition, 'everyone' would include only those people you would choose. The law which was found unconstitutional banned people from expressing their views through the means and time of their choosing. Now truly everyone does have an opportunity to express their opinion. Your definition of 'equal' is an equality of outcome, but not of merit.]

I just think the flood gates have been opened and we're gonna be dealing with a bunch of nonsense now because someone has more money/connections than others. :/
[I believe nonsense never really leaves, and from your paragraphs above you noted the corporations would need to hide to show their support. How nonsensical is it to propose backroom dealing?

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Re: Supreme Court Rules against Democracy
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:59 pm 
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I honestly don't want to refute your statements because I believe you'll just put in more of your own opinions of what I said, twisting it more so than you have already. IE you seem to be arguing to argue. :/

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Re: Supreme Court Rules against Democracy
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:04 am 
 
 
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Lekana wrote:
I honestly don't want to refute your statements because I believe you'll just put in more of your own opinions of what I said, twisting it more so than you have already. IE you seem to be arguing to argue. :/


Your post is quite similar to a "straw man" tactic, or an attack on character rather than substance.

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Re: Supreme Court Rules against Democracy
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:45 pm 
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No it's what i've noticed in all your replies to every thread that you've posted in this section. It's not so much that you don't agree, especially the racism thread. You don't really argue a point but you talk argumentative. Please don't be so aggressive and only argue to argue. kk thanks

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